Talk: House Estermont
Family relations in error
The family tree on this page is wrong, though that is understandable because the Estermont thing confused the Hell out of me at first too. Basically, Eldon Estermont is Cassana's brother not her father. Now, I know what you are thinking, AFFC appendix gives us Lord Eldon Estermont, Lord of Greenstone, and that is certainly true, but the crucial missing piece of information that GRRM has not, for some odd reason, deigned to tell us is that old Lord Estermont, first name never given, grandfather to Stannis, died at some point during ASOS or just after. Want some proof? Take a look at the appendix for A Storm of Swords under "The King on the Iron Throne." Part way down the first page you have Ser (as opposed to Lord) Eldon Estermont listed as Joffrey's grandmother's (Cassana's) brother. His son is given as Ser Aemon, so we know we are talking about the same person here. Under "The King in the Narrow Sea," we get Stannis's maternal uncle (Cassana's brother) Ser Lomas Estermont. Any uncle of Stannis is a brother of Joffrey's grandmother, so Lomas and Eldon are both brothers of Cassana and therefore sons of the Lord Estermont that ACOK and ASOS make clear is Stannis's grandfather. Confusing? Yes. Obvious when all laid out in one place? I think so. Indrian 12:58, 14 June 2007 (CDT)
- I'll check it later at home. I remember the difficulties arranging the internal relationships of the family, and even giving the matter some thought it appears I did it wrong. However, if you are right, then the original Lord Estermont would be a miracle man: he would have a son in his seventies and still riding to wars and fighting battles... --The hairy bear (Send me a raven) 08:52, 15 June 2007 (CDT)
- Obviously you were right. I've already modified the family tree, thanks for pointing it out. The only thing I think I don't agree is the conclusion that Eldon was not the Lord as per AGOT, even if he is called "Ser" in the appendixes, due to the age problem mentioned before. And we have Lord Darry, that was also called "Ser" throughout AGOT.--The hairy bear (Send me a raven) 15:36, 17 June 2007 (CDT)
- Actually, this is once again proven from the text. In Davos's fourth chapter of A Storm of Swords on page 493 of the U.S, paperback, Stannis says thus: "The Lannisters think I am done and beaten, and my sworn lords have forsaken me, near every one. Even 'Lord Estermont, my own mother's father, has bent his knee to Joffrey. Clearly this is not Eldon, his mother's brother. Indrian 22:19, 18 June 2007 (CDT)
- Bah, you are right again. What a headache; from now on I oficially declare I hate House Estermont. So it's unavoidable, without contradicting publishing text, to accept that a man at least 20 years older than Barristan Selmy campaigned with Stannis and renly and fought at the Blackwater, without anyone mentioning his age. I think GRRM slipped here...--The hairy bear (Send me a raven) 13:31, 19 June 2007 (CDT)
- Have you guys seen A Dance with Dragons Appendix? Eldon Estermont is listed as Robert's Great Uncle. So in actual fact, he is his maternal grandfather's brother as opposed to Cassana's. User:KCenturion 17:41, 27 February 2011 (CDT)
- I had not noticed that. Martin has either changed his mind or previous appendicies were in error. In the ASOS appendix, he lists Eldon as Joffrey's grandmother's brother. In the AFFC appendix, he calls Eldon Stannis's uncle and Tommen's great-uncle. Eldon being the brother of the Lord Estermont featured in ACOK and ASOS makes a heck of a lot more sense due to the age problem, so I imagine ADWD should be considered the correct source. Indrian 16:35, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
- Have you guys seen A Dance with Dragons Appendix? Eldon Estermont is listed as Robert's Great Uncle. So in actual fact, he is his maternal grandfather's brother as opposed to Cassana's. User:KCenturion 17:41, 27 February 2011 (CDT)
- Bah, you are right again. What a headache; from now on I oficially declare I hate House Estermont. So it's unavoidable, without contradicting publishing text, to accept that a man at least 20 years older than Barristan Selmy campaigned with Stannis and renly and fought at the Blackwater, without anyone mentioning his age. I think GRRM slipped here...--The hairy bear (Send me a raven) 13:31, 19 June 2007 (CDT)
- Actually, this is once again proven from the text. In Davos's fourth chapter of A Storm of Swords on page 493 of the U.S, paperback, Stannis says thus: "The Lannisters think I am done and beaten, and my sworn lords have forsaken me, near every one. Even 'Lord Estermont, my own mother's father, has bent his knee to Joffrey. Clearly this is not Eldon, his mother's brother. Indrian 22:19, 18 June 2007 (CDT)
- Obviously you were right. I've already modified the family tree, thanks for pointing it out. The only thing I think I don't agree is the conclusion that Eldon was not the Lord as per AGOT, even if he is called "Ser" in the appendixes, due to the age problem mentioned before. And we have Lord Darry, that was also called "Ser" throughout AGOT.--The hairy bear (Send me a raven) 15:36, 17 June 2007 (CDT)