Difference between revisions of "Talk: Battle on the Green Fork"

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The Manderlys know were they are to go but I don't believe they have replied to Robb back about how many men they are to send to him. When Bran sees the Bannermen assembled in Winterfell maester Luwin doesn't say how many men the Manderly Locke and other lords will bring just that they are to meet Robb in Moat Cailin. if he knew then he would mention the numbers to Bran.  
 
The Manderlys know were they are to go but I don't believe they have replied to Robb back about how many men they are to send to him. When Bran sees the Bannermen assembled in Winterfell maester Luwin doesn't say how many men the Manderly Locke and other lords will bring just that they are to meet Robb in Moat Cailin. if he knew then he would mention the numbers to Bran.  
 
Also Roose says to Jaime that 1000 Karstark men are searching for him plus there are 200 men that Roose sends to take Jaime back to King's landing. If we add these to the 11.700 Roose has before the freys leave and Karstark is executed: 11.700+1000+200=12.900. and If he lost 4550 men in the Green Fork then we have 17.450 men which is closer to 18.000 men at the green fork. [[User:Pavlosbal|Pavlosbal] 11 November 2013
 
Also Roose says to Jaime that 1000 Karstark men are searching for him plus there are 200 men that Roose sends to take Jaime back to King's landing. If we add these to the 11.700 Roose has before the freys leave and Karstark is executed: 11.700+1000+200=12.900. and If he lost 4550 men in the Green Fork then we have 17.450 men which is closer to 18.000 men at the green fork. [[User:Pavlosbal|Pavlosbal] 11 November 2013
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: I still don't see why Robb will tell his mother that he has 18,000 men, and not add "plus Manderly's force" if he did not already calculate it. He was talking about how many men he has without the Vale. Regarding your figures, 4,550 is calculating backwards. 200 men with Jaime and 1,000 Karstarks that should include 300 horsemen from Robb's army (I assume the other ~1,300 Karstark foot died on the Green Fork or at Duskendale, so I will not add those 300 horsemen), plus 11,700, is 12,600. Since the calculation was that Roose had ~16,250 men, he should have lost ~3,050 at the battle. Sticking with ~16,000 men in "strengh", and "a few thousands" or "roughly 3,000" in casualties, seems the best bet. Agree? [[User:Nyrhex|Nyrhex]] 18:35, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

Revision as of 18:35, 11 November 2013

Strength Estimate

Robb stark had 18k at Moat Cailin (according to aGoT Catelyn VIII), He gained another 4k frey at the Twins and sent the foot down the kings road while he took the horse across.

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Robb had 12,000 men in Winterfell. 9,000 foot and 3,000 horse. At Moat Cailin he had 18,000 men. If the same ratio of horse-to-foot remained, he had 13,500 foot, and 4,500 horse. Together with Walder Frey's 3,000 foot and 1,000 horse, Robb had a host 22,000 strong, comprising 5,500 horse, and 16,500 foot. 800 foot remained at the Twins, and 90% of the horse went with Robb, while 10% went with Roose. That gives Roose roughly 15,700 foot, and 550 horse. A total of 16,250 men.

Tywin is estimated with 20,000 men, and had 300 wildlings with him, for a total of 20,300 men. Tywin's right flank was comprised of 4,000 cavalry. The left was also all mounted, and comprised ~1,000 men, including Tyrion and his 300 wildlings ("Gregor waved his huge sword and bellowed a command, and a thousand other voices screamed back at him."). Tywin had 2,500 horse, and 2,500 foot in reserve. Kevan had 300 horse, and the rest of the infantry. 20,300 - 4,000 - 1,000 - 5,000 - 300 = 10,000 pikemen, archers, and men-at-arms in the center.

Robb claims to have 18,000 men after he is joined by Manderly's force. Nyrhex 22:07, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

Robb does say he has 18.000 men after Manderly joins him however he doesn't know at that time how many men Mandelry Locke and flint of Flint's finger have all brought to Moat Cailin so he has 18.000 without them and he has 20.000 men after they join him so Roose has 18.000 footmen. [[User:Pavlosbal|Pavlosbal] 10 November 2013

I am not so sure about the remaining northern soldiers If someone could tell me in which book chapter the casualties are mentioned I would really appreciate it [[User:Pavlosbal|Pavlosbal] 10 November 2013

Robb should know how many men are on thier way, as he was waiting for them at that specific location. He should have known how many Manderly sent, as Manderly should know where to send them. It's the same as in Winterfell when Bran is told that with the 2,300 Karsarks, that makes 12,000 in Winterfell. The casualties are a calculatiopn of the other losses, combined with Roose's remaining stength when he meets up with Robb. Bolton sent 3,000 men to Duskendale, what is described by Robb as "a third of my foot". That gives Roose 9-10k men prior to Duskendale. 3,000 losses in Duskendale, 2,000 on the Ruby Ford, 600 as garrison there, and Roose' remaining force is 500 horse and 3,000 foot. 3k+2k+600+500+3k=9,100. Prior to Duskendale Roose also had ~2,600 Frey foot. It is unlikely that they stayed after Robb married Jeyne, and Roose claims that most of his 3,500 men are from the Dreadfort, and some from Karhold. The losses at Duskendale and the Ruby Ford were of Northern houses, in preperations for the Red Wedding. 9,100+2,600=11,700. If Roose had ~16,250 men as estimated above, it means that slightly more than a quarter of his force was destroyed (4,550 if we want to be specific, but we only get large numbers, and there is alot of room for error). Nyrhex 16:39, 10 November 2013 (UTC)


The Manderlys know were they are to go but I don't believe they have replied to Robb back about how many men they are to send to him. When Bran sees the Bannermen assembled in Winterfell maester Luwin doesn't say how many men the Manderly Locke and other lords will bring just that they are to meet Robb in Moat Cailin. if he knew then he would mention the numbers to Bran. Also Roose says to Jaime that 1000 Karstark men are searching for him plus there are 200 men that Roose sends to take Jaime back to King's landing. If we add these to the 11.700 Roose has before the freys leave and Karstark is executed: 11.700+1000+200=12.900. and If he lost 4550 men in the Green Fork then we have 17.450 men which is closer to 18.000 men at the green fork. [[User:Pavlosbal|Pavlosbal] 11 November 2013

I still don't see why Robb will tell his mother that he has 18,000 men, and not add "plus Manderly's force" if he did not already calculate it. He was talking about how many men he has without the Vale. Regarding your figures, 4,550 is calculating backwards. 200 men with Jaime and 1,000 Karstarks that should include 300 horsemen from Robb's army (I assume the other ~1,300 Karstark foot died on the Green Fork or at Duskendale, so I will not add those 300 horsemen), plus 11,700, is 12,600. Since the calculation was that Roose had ~16,250 men, he should have lost ~3,050 at the battle. Sticking with ~16,000 men in "strengh", and "a few thousands" or "roughly 3,000" in casualties, seems the best bet. Agree? Nyrhex 18:35, 11 November 2013 (UTC)