Talk: Raventree Hall
Are we sure about the location of Raventree Hall? The only piece of evidence I could find that would place it in the location shown is the 'Lands of Ice and Fire' map which implies that it lies somewhere north of the Red Fork. However, I could find no reference to its location in 'The World of Ice and Fire' other than passing sentences describing the Blackwoods as being neighbours to the Brackens. And when you think about it, it makes more sense for Raventree Hall to be located south of the Red Fork: • Raventree Hall was taken by Tywin Lannister in AGoT and the lands raided and burnt by his men. However as far as we know Tywin's men always remained either south of the Red Fork or east of the Green Fork. • The location given for Raventree Hall places it close to the Whispering Wood and therefore either along the route of the northern army during AGoT, yet no effort was made to relieve Raventree or take out the Lannister forces holding it. • One of the things that House Blackwood is known for is their rivalry with House Bracken. Their lands are said to be neighbouring those of the Brackens (which we know to be located south of the Red Fork), with land such as 'the Teats' exchanging hands multiple times including after the surrender of Raventree Hall in ADwD. The location given here would imply that Raventree Hall lies significantly north of the Red Fork, it seems to make much more sense that it would be closer to Stone Hedge, south of the Red Fork.
Is there any evidence I'm missing? There doesn't seem to be definitive evidence, with the supposedly canon 'journeys' map saying north of the red fork, while textual evidence says it should be south. What do you guys think?
- Hi! This thread on the asoiaf-forum discusses the location of Raventree Hall, in which Ran states (emphasis mine):
Back in 2004 GRRM mailed Linda and I (this was very shortly after my meeting him in Santa Fe) and noted he was planning to explicitly place them on opposite sides of the Red Fork.
The first map to note the location of Raventree, IIRC, was actually the early HBO map for GoT. We never really established if that was based on info George gave them or not -- I had been asked by HBO about where Raventree was located and gave them speculation based on the facts we knew (including GRRM's 2004 statement) but we never figured out whether HBO went on to confirm with GRRM or not.
But since then RH has published maps with Raventree noted and have used that location as well, and the Lands of Ice and Fire maps were indeed looked at by George so presumably he had no objection. OTOH, there's lots of detail in maps, and maybe he missed it if it was being placed erroneously.
In any case, opposite sides of the river was what GRRM intended way back when, I suppose, he was writing those Jaime chapters that eventually ended up in ADwD. How far apart I can't say with absolute certainty, though. The HBO location seems a bit too far off in my mind, but if they got it from George, that's what he intends.
- The bolded statement is of particular importance. The map in A World of Ice and Fire does exactly that, placing the two castles on the opposite sides of the river. Anw with The World of Ice and Fire placing Stone Hedge south of the river in particular, that seems to add more argument to the castle's location.
- I have to disagree that the text in AGOT says the castle is on the south side of the river. 1) During Tytos Blackwood's absence, the castle is seriously under-defended. It made the castle an easy target, and Tywin would not have needed to make his entire army cross the river to attack it. 2) Taking back Riverrun from the Lannisters was Robb's greatest importance. It was the main seat of the riverlands, and taking Riverrun back from the Lannisters was much more important than Raventree.
- Ran's statement regarding GRRM's opinion on the locations of Stone Hedge and Raventree tells us specifically that being separated by a river does not prevent a rivalry, as that is what Martin intended it to be (at least back in 2004).
- Also, don't forget to sign your comments with ~~~~ to leave your name and a time stamp ;) --Rhaenys Targaryen (talk) 18:41, 19 May 2017 (UTC)