Talk:Hammer of the waters
Two Hammers of the waters
They used the Hammer of the Waters twice. The first time was on the arm of Dorne to try and keep out the First Men, but it was too late. The second time was years later after Moat Cailin had been built, in an attempt to stop the Andal advance.
aCoK cpt 50 Theon IV
“The histories say the crannogmen grew close to the children of the forest in the days when the greenseers tried to bring the hammer of the waters down upon the Neck.”
Why would the Crannogmen being growing close to the Children of the Forest at the same time that the children were trying to keep men out? Another piece of evidence is the lack of Andals in the North. Even though they didn't completely submerge The Neck, they made it swampy enough to keep people out, but the First Men were already there. The fact that they called down the hammer from a tower of Moat Cailin (the Children didn't build stone buildings) is also proof that this was done after the First Men Migration to keep out the Andals.--RumHam 19:55, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
Also the text makes it clear that it was the Shattering of the Arm of Dorne that scared the first men into making the pact:
The old songs say that the greenseers used dark magics to make the seas rise and sweep away the land, shattering the Arm, but it was too late to close the door. The wars went on until the earth ran red with blood of men and children both, but more children than men, for men were bigger and stronger, and wood and stone and obsidian make a poor match for bronze. Finally the wise of both races prevailed, and the chiefs and heroes of the First Men met the greenseers and wood dancers amidst the weirwood groves of a small island in the great lake called Gods Eye. “There they forged the Pact.
--RumHam 19:59, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
Alright so I re-wrote the article a little to make it more accurate and clear. It might need touching up--RumHam 20:10, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
I see where you are coming from now. However there doesn’t seem to be a clear indication as to exactly when the children attempted to shatter the Neck. So you think the difference between the two events is thousands of years and the first men joined the children in wanting the Neck shattered to cut the Andals off? There is nothing in the timeline at the moment referring to when the hammer of the waters occurred - I'll re-check my books when I have more time.
I don’t agree with the name the hammer of the waters referring to both events, I think the name really refers to what happened at the Neck although the type of magic was likely the same used on the Arm of Dorne – or maybe it wasn’t as it didn’t work in the Neck? --Melanie 14:53, 15 July 2014 (UTC)