Talk: Lyanna Stark

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I tried to flesh out the article by finding references for the existing text, additional details on her life and impact in the novels, and a few corrections where the article contradicted the text of the novels. If I have overlooked an important reference to Lyanna, please let me know. --Dimadick 22:30, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

Nice work! My only comment is that the paragraphs that refer to the books are redundant.
A division in such paragraphs may work well for main characters that are alive because it describes what they are doing during a particular time. But for a person that is already dead the info usually contains memories and recollections. There is no reason to include these in paragraphs with titles that refer to the books. For instance the comparison between Lyanna and Cersei is about Lyanna's appearence so it could be included there. That Kevin Lannister thinks of that in A Dance with Dragons is true, but is that relevant enough to create a separate paragraph? Scafloc 23:46, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
Merged the paragraphs into the history section. Better? --Dimadick 17:41, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
Yes I think it is better now. Also "Named after Lyanna" is a good one; that is what it is about. I does not matter in which book this was. Scafloc 21:38, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

Picture edit war

Maybe instead of having an edit war you should discuss the picture a bit :D

Personally I prefer the one by Elia Fernandez, Lyanna looks more natural in the picture --SerKeplan 12:08, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

It is not about liking a picture, according to our policy the picture should fit the description. Lyanna is described as having dark hair, a long have and having a "wild" look about her. Please compare the pictures. Elia's Lyanna has no dark hair, no long face and certainly does not look wild (nor beautiful). Another point: the previous picture was the one of Riavel. If Donal Stark want to challenge that fine but let him do so here before changing it.Scafloc 07:05, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
Again we have agreed that the pictures should match the description. This applies even more for the "main picture". Riavel's picture matches it best from the current collection (long face, wild look, flowers of which Lyanna was said to be fond). If there are arguments for other pictures please state them.Scafloc 23:01, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

Lyanna would have had Stark dark brown hair, not black hair. And I think Dreambeing's picture is simply better. Lyanna is supposed to be extremely beautiful, and I feel he captured this the best. He also gave her a long face. And "wild" is pretty hard to define, but I think it comes across better wearing furs. --Lord Thornhart 01:54, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

Dreambeings Lyanna does not have a long face and the girl on it looks shy, not wild or willfull. Wearing furs does not change that. And I think the picture is not as good as Riavel's. Also Lyanna is said to have "dark" which is consistent with Riavel's impression.Scafloc
Riavel's doesn't look wild or willfull, it doesn't even seem to have personality. Also her eyes seem blue, while Dreambeing's has the correct grey. Yes her hair is dark, as in dark brown. Starks have brown hair. I don't believe one was ever said to have black hair. --Lord Thornhart 02:45, 15 June 2014 (UTC)
Blue? That is farfetched to say the least. If we are taking this aproach Dreambeings Lyanna has dark eyes. About the hair the quote cleary says "dark hair". So it is in line with the text. Having a preference is ok but keep to the text please. Dreambeings Lyanna just does not look anything removely resembling willfully or head strong. If fact if the hair would have been red people would have thought she was Sansa.Scafloc 10:01, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

But the Riavel picture doesn't exactly show wild either, I think. Why is the Elia Fernandez image out of the running, exactly? The eyes and hair match, right?--Rhaenys_Targaryen 15:32, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

I think the Riavel's version is more wild then either Elia Fernandez or Dreambeing. The one of Elia Fernandez is correct with the sadness that is also associated with Lyannna. And the color of the eyes match. But the hair color ? To me this does not seem dark but light brown.Scafloc (talk) 09:32, 26 May 2015 (CDT)
Elia Fernandez might not display wild necessarily, but it does show the correct eye color, and the brown hair (I personally find Riavel's drawing to display her hair more black than brown, and Lyanna's hair was brown, after all.--Rhaenys Targaryen (talk) 14:06, 26 May 2015 (CDT)
The books say "dark" not brown. So that matches less with Fernandez' picture which shows the color as a light brown.Scafloc (talk) 14:17, 26 May 2015 (CDT)
She looks like Arya, whose hair is brown.. So dark-brown it should be then, right? Not black.--Rhaenys Targaryen (talk) 14:32, 26 May 2015 (CDT)
It does not exactly say that Arya is copy of Lyanna. Fernande's picture has light hair not dark. And it says nowhere that it cannot be be black.Scafloc (talk) 15:22, 26 May 2015 (CDT)
At the moment, I'm a bit at a loss.. Where does the book say dark? Could you point me to the chapter number?--Rhaenys Targaryen (talk) 15:50, 26 May 2015 (CDT)
I don't have the books with me from here but the reference (3) in the article points to chapter 12 (AGOT). I have not read A World Of Ice and Fire; if that says something else then it needs a reference.Scafloc (talk) 15:55, 26 May 2015 (CDT)
Yeah, I had already checked chapter 12, but I couldn't find anything..? Her hair colour not described in The World of Ice and Fire, as far as I can recall. She's only called "a wild and boyish young thing with none of the Princess Elia's delicate beauty" --Rhaenys Targaryen (talk) 16:15, 26 May 2015 (CDT)
Not in chapter 12? I'll check it myself tomorrow but if it is not there than "dark" does not count. It should be from the books.Scafloc (talk) 16:24, 26 May 2015 (CDT)
Did a search in the books on "Lyanna". To summarize the results: wild beauty, blue roses. And sometimes "sad" is also mentioned. There does not seem to be any reference to a specific facial attribute. Nothing about the hair, nor the eyes. And when Arya and Lyanna are compared the physical similarities are not specified "You even look like her.” from Eddard and Bran wondering if he sees Arya in his tree-dream, but probably Lyanna is intended. I can't guarantee there is not more but this was all I could find.Scafloc (talk) 10:44, 28 May 2015 (CDT)
I've searched again as well, and couldn't find any mention of "dark". I did find that the Starks typically have brown hair, and that Lyanna looks like Arya (who has brown hair), and it was said by some that Margaery resembles Lyanna (Margaery also has brown hair). So I'd conclude that all currently points in favor of Lyanna having had brown hair as well. Therefore, I would like to propose changing the picture, and my personal preferance would be the Elia Fernandez picture. If not, then the Marcos Feittosa picture. Any opinions?--Rhaenys Targaryen (talk) 12:41, 3 June 2015 (CDT)
It is clearly stated that most children of Eddard look like the Tully's especially pointing to the brown-red hair. In all honesty: if you only knew that Elia Fernandez's picture showed one of the Stark but you would have to guess whom. Would you (or anybody) than point to Lyanna? The light-brown-going-to-reddish looks more Tully like. It ignores that there is clearly a distinction between Lyanna, Arya, Jon and the other Starks. Also I found that Jon is called dark (AGOT1; Bran, page 13). And as Arya is assumed to look like both. And of course there is another reason to think that Jon may resemble Lyanna...Scafloc (talk) 07:49, 4 June 2015 (CDT)
To be honest, yes, I'd assume it is Lyanna, due to the brown hair, the direwolf, and the blue rose. There is no red(dish) in this picture, no matter which device I look at it on. That Jon is described as dark is a strong indication in favor of Lyanna being dark (though dark doesn't equal black, but could just as easily have been dark-brown), but it is no proof. Jon is mentioned to have brown hair, as is Arya. No one would think Margaery looks like Lyanna if she had had the wrong hair colour. So the current Lyanna picture depicts only the garland of roses correctly.. Even though we don't have a description of her wearing it, only holding it. If everything points to her having had brown hair, why keep the picture showing her with black hair?--Rhaenys Targaryen (talk) 13:12, 4 June 2015 (CDT)
Maergery does not look like Lyanna. Renly, who never saw Lyanna, was mistaken in that. Eddard who knew her very well confirmed this. There is no confirmation of the colour of Lyanna's her but we can savely assume that it is darker than that of Lyanna. However Elia Fernandez's clearly show a very light colour aligning whith that of the Stark that are descended of Tully's (which are mentioned as looking rather as a typical Starks). Even Dreambieng's version has darker hair. So the only thing (of Elia Fernandez) that matches is the rose, but that is of the wrong colour. If we compare that to Riavel's version: sad eyses, wild, long face. The hair color is unconfirmed, that is what we noticed by checking the refereces. I take it you like Fernandez picture but the idea for the picture on top is that it should be the one that matches the description most closely. And that is just not Fernandez' Lyannna.Scafloc (talk) 11:09, 8 June 2015 (CDT)
I don't think you understand the point I'm trying to make.
  • Renly believed that Margaery looked like Lyanna, even though Ned disagreed. Would Renly even have considered it a possibility that Margaery looked like Lyanna, if the hair colour had been completely different? I highly doubt it, and am convinced that, in such a case, they would have even made Margaery dye her hair. They didn't. Despite the fact that Margaery and Lyanna do not look alike, their hair colour seems to match
  • Arya Stark does certainly look like Lyanna, and Arya, again, has brown hair (and a long face and grey eyes, which Margaery doesn't have).
  • You even brought up that Jon might resemble Lyanna... Jon again had brown hair (dark), not black.
  • In addition to all of that, Starks typically have brown hair (and while that doesn't automatically mean that every single Stark had brown hair, like Robb or Sansa, it does point in favor of Starks having brown hair).
The picture on top of the page should fit the description of Lyanna the best. Currently, we have a girl with black hair, who does not look particularly sad, nor wild, who is wearing a crown with blue roses. Personally, I feel that, had it not been for the crown, it would be difficult to guess she was Lyanna. You don't feel like the picture of Elia Fernandez fits, due to the fact that the girl in the image does not look sad, as Lyanna is often described by Ned (and I agree that she does not look sad), despite the fact that the girl has the better hair colour (because if the question becomes "black or brown" to match the dark brown of Jon and Arya, brown should be the way to go), and the direwolf and rose to make her recognizable, that's fine. That is why I suggested a second option: Marcos Feittosa's Lyanna, who matches in both the hair colour of the people said to look like or at one point believed to look like Lyanna, who has the blue rose, who has the long face, who has the grey eyes, and who looks sad. Riavel's version just doesn't fit well enough with the references that we do have, and while I feel that Elia Fernandez' version would fit better, I accept that you disagree, which is why again, I put forward by second choice: Marcos Feittosa's version. How do you feel about that image then?--Rhaenys Targaryen (talk) 13:46, 8 June 2015 (CDT)

Are there any other opinions on this? On the wiki thread, the image of Elia Fernandez was offered again, as well as the image from Dreambeing. --Rhaenys Targaryen (talk) 02:53, 9 July 2015 (CDT)