User talk:Rhaenys Targaryen

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A place to discuss

Deletion of Daemon Blackfyre/Theories

Hi the theories pages are intended for speculations / calculated guesses. Not sure why you deleted it. Could you discuss this first? Scafloc 22:50, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

The contents of that page were a discussion of when Daemon was born, but Daemon's age during a known year has been confirmed, and thus it seemed unnecessary to me to use an entire page for a discussion that ended with the sentence "The author confirmed Daemon's birth date in a mail to the Dabel Brothers." So I figured the page was no longer necessary. Was that wrong thinking?--Rhaenys_Targaryen 06:43, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
In that case there is no need for speculation (on this point). I think it is better to add this to the theory page. Else how would anyone know this. Cheers,Scafloc 21:22, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

Re: Family trees

Yeah I was just updating the information on a few of the family trees, but if you think they look better with dates for all characters or none, I can easily remove them :) Lord Knightmare 16:59, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

Personally, I think it looks better if they are removed. I think it would make the trees more orderly. Having the dates removed would also have the advantage of not spoiling deaths of characters for new readers who would like to look at a tree to see how character A is related to character B. --Rhaenys_Targaryen 17:03, 31 May 2014 (UTC)
Ok I'll remove them tomorrow, it's getting late here :) Lord Knightmare 17:15, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

There are also recent edits of dotted lines for marriages being changed to solid lines, which have been used for blood relations (for example, House Lydden before and after). Is that agreed upon? Nittanian 14:45, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

Not sure, but it seems logical. Aren't dotted lines supposed to show outer marital activities? For example, the line between Daena Taryargen and Baelor I Targaryen should be a solid one, since they were legally married, but the line between Daena and Aegon IV should be dotted, since they were not married? The line going down to Daemon Blackfyre would be dotted then as well, since he's a bastard, born out of wedlock. How else are we supposed to make clear the difference between children born out of wedlock, and those born within a marriage?--Rhaenys_Targaryen 18:11, 1 June 2014 (UTC)
It's not used consistently then. For instance, House Swyft and House Stokeworth currently have had dotted lines for marriages for years, while House Frey/Blackwood had them until recently. Nittanian 19:12, 1 June 2014 (UTC)
Then perhaps we should also start working on that :) If everyone agrees with using solid lines for marriages, and dotted lines for bastards and affairs out of marriage?
So to take the Stokeworths as an example, between Falyse and her husband should be a solid line, and between Lollys and Bronn, but not between Lollys and the unknown who lead to Tyrion Tanner, since little Tyrion is a bastard --Rhaenys_Targaryen 20:05, 1 June 2014 (UTC)
According to this BBC page, dotted lines can be used for presumed relationships. It also states that an equal sign is used for marriages; I'm not sure if the wiki template software allows for that. Interestingly enough, the Template:Familytree uses dashes for marriages and solid lines for children & siblings in its sample. Based on the Stark family tree from the Edelweiss extract, TWOIAF will differentiate between marriages and children with different colors, but I don't think the familytree template offers colored lines. Nittanian 20:59, 1 June 2014 (UTC)
I don't think colours is a good idea. From what I understand, you can colour a box, but not a line. Wouldn't it make more sense to use a dashed line for bastards and affairs, and solid lines for marriages and legitimate children though? How else should we see the difference in one go? It would mean that multiple family trees need editing, but at least they'll be easy to find, with the category.--Rhaenys_Targaryen 11:04, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

I checked Wikipedia, which uses family trees inconsistently. For instance House of Normandy, House of Windsor, and the Nevilles use dashes for marriages. House of Orange-Nassau does as well, and includes vertical dashes and "illeg." for illegitimate children. The Shakespeare family tree use solid lines for marriages. The tree for Mary, Queen of Scots also uses solid lines and only uses dashes to help with spacing.

Regarding AWOIAF, I like the look of the Orange-Nassau system, but it's not a dealbreaker. Nittanian 16:22, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

So dotted lines for marriages or affairs, and solid lines for trueborn children, and dotted lines for illegimate children then? Though I have to admit, having looked at the Shakespear tree again, I really like the look of that one. --Rhaenys_Targaryen 19:39, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

Aegon Targaryen/Theories

Hello Rhaenys! What you've written about Aegon VI sounds good, but let me ask you one thing, could it also be that Aegon VI is really Aegon VI, rescued before King's Landing was sacked? We all know that George R.R. Martin has a faible for "unhappy endings" and this would be one... for Daenerys! --Exodianecross 19:09, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

Hi! Of course that could be true. I've tried to rewrite the page because I felt it was suggesting that Aegon was fake too much, and I wanted to make it more neutral. Is it not yet neutral enough? --Rhaenys_Targaryen 20:52, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
I would say, there are more reasons written that Aegon is a fake, and not true! But I think that this isn't wrong. There are enough doubts of his true identity because in a world like this, medieval, no one can be sure if he/she is a true son/daughter, from the biological point of view! Just for fun, perhaps George Martin will reveal that Daenerys isn't Daenerys, because the true Daenerys died shortly after the arrival in Essos/Braavos. And Willem Darry stole a female Blackfyre-babe because he knew, that Viserys would need a "sister" as a marriage proposal to a strong ally, to get the strength to reconquer the throne! The revelation that Dany isn't a Targaryen would be the worst "unhappy ending" of all times, wouldn't you agree?--Exodianecross 21:21, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
The way I see it, all the hints pointing towards "Aegon is fake" can also be seen in the light pointing towards "Aegon is real". It's just a matter of how you explain it to people. But the wiki page of Aegon should not be favouring theories. We have a forum and theory pages on the wiki for that. The wiki entries should remain neutral.
In a world without DNA tests doubt will always arise, so that people, both in-universe and as readers, doubt his identity, is normal. I'd find it strange if someone never had any doubt at all!
As to the Dany=Blackfyre, no, I don't believe in that one :p Ser Willam would not have had any reason to try and hide the fact that Dany had died, and as a Targaryen loyalist, would not have been able to find a Blackfyre baby so quickly (especially not since there is no one named Blackfyre left). Viserys did not need a sister to make marriage proposals... Viserys himself was the marriage proposal, a proposal made within 5 years of their flight from Dragonstone.
I think that the revelation that Dany, longing for a family, having killed her own nephew (Aegon), whom she believed to be a pretender, but who actually wasn't, would also be an extremely unhappy ending. --Rhaenys_Targaryen 08:12, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
Yes, that could be! In my imagination, it would also be an unhappy ending if Dany would loose everything to Aegon and returns in a identical situation like at the beginning of the story. --Exodianecross 14:43, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
Well, for what's it's worth, I doubt Aegon will survive until the end of aDoS, no matter if he's real or fake ;) --Rhaenys_Targaryen 16:10, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
We'll see. We all knew that Martin has a faible for unhappy endings AND surprises! --Exodianecross 00:32, 25 June 2014 (UTC)


Hello Rhaenys! Very nice our work at "Smallfolk", but I think we have forgotten a last thing, the Faith of the Seven! Everyone can become a septa/septon! --Exodianecross 16:27, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

I've added the septa's/septons, and adjusted the lay-out a bit. Feel free to adjust anything you think needs adjusting ;) --Rhaenys_Targaryen 16:45, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
Allright. I think, that was it for now.--Exodianecross 17:25, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

World info

Sorry if some of the World info I initially added to pages like Dance of the Dragons was a bit quick and sloppy. It's what I added in the initial "rush" the first day I got the World book and was rapidly posting exciting new info from it. In the future (such as on "Summer Islands") I am trying to be more systematic.--The Dragon Demands 18:01, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

Alright then ;) No reasons to rush edits :) the pages aren't going anywhere.. --Rhaenys_Targaryen 19:03, 7 December 2014 (UTC)


Be careful with your plurals: for example, the plural of "Rogare" is "Rogares", not "Rogare's", which would be the possessive form, not the plural.--Gonzalo 02:47, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

Oops! I try to be carefull about that, but I guess it slipped through.. Thanks for the heads up! My apologies --Rhaenys_Targaryen 18:52, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

Family Tree Start Template

The typo in the template made it so any overall style options had no effect. Not sure how many trees have a style option that was invisible until the change, my apologies! --Mindset (talk) 09:08, 27 October 2015 (CDT)

Several of the family trees were suddenly displayed very small. Was that because of the edit to the template? If so, we can, of course, make the edit again, but this time, check which family trees are all displayed too small and correct that. They are all listed on the page Category:Family trees, so finding them shouldn't be too difficult. (or, of course, we could check before making the edit where there would be an effect..). What do you think? :) --Rhaenys Targaryen (talk) 11:41, 27 October 2015 (CDT)

Dornish bastards

Hello Rhaenys! I saw you have shortened what I wrote about dornish bastards in the article, but I think it's necessary to point a few things out! The Sand Snakes are the most prominent example for the different backgrounds a bastard in Dorne may have, and they are all respected by the nobility and the commoners I think. Obara was born by a whore, Nymeria and Sarella born by outsiders (volantese noblewoman and a Summerlander) and Tyene by a Septa! This shows that bastards are also respected when they are born outside of a "paramour-relationship", right? --Exodianecross (talk) 14:54, 21 February 2016 (CST)

Hello! What do you think about adding the following? (in cursive is the text already there, the regular text would be the add-on)
In recent times, Prince Oberyn Martell has fathered eight bastard daughters of five different mothers.[1] His children are raised at the court of Sunspear, where several are close to the heir of Prince Doran Martell, Princess Arianne.[2][3] Despite the fact that Oberyn's daughters were born of mothers of variable social stations - Obara's mother was a whore, Nymeria's mother a Volantenese noblewoman, Tyene's mother a septa and Sarella's mother a trader captain - they appear not to be treated different from Elia, Obella, Dorea, and Loreza, the children he fathered on his recognized paramour, Ellaria Sand.[1][2][4]
Because they are Oberyn's daughters, and Oberyn was so beloved, I'd be careful to say that what applies to these eight women/girls, automatically applies to every single bastard in Dorne.--Rhaenys Targaryen (talk) 16:00, 21 February 2016 (CST)
Yes, maybe you are right. The point is, besides the Sand Snakes we have only two other "Sands" in the story, Ellaria Sand and Daemon Sand! And in both cases it seems that they are beloved and in high status. The point is, it's implied that dornish bastards have in general better circumstances than in the other parts of Westeros. This makes me believe that someone like Gulian Qorgyle could father a bastard with a camp follower, for example, and he or she wouldn't treated different like a child born in a marriage! Dorne is a very big contrast to the other parts of Westeros and dornish nobles like Oberyn Martell, Harmen Uller and Ryon Allyrion seem to love their bastardchildren, and no one in Dorne look down to them. A very big contrast to Robert Baratheon for example! --Exodianecross (talk) 17:50, 21 February 2016 (CST)

Iron Throne

Why was the gallery removed? The pictures were pretty accurate. Lord Evermore (talk) 14:29, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

I didn't feel like it added much new info to the page. It was just the same list as already presented on the page, only now with images instead of numbers. But most importantly, on mobile view, it was just a long list of images you had to scroll past in order to reach a new section of text. --Rhaenys Targaryen (talk) 15:18, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
I'll convert it to a table and add it to the bottom. Lord Evermore (talk) 15:35, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
I think that's a good compromise :) But perhaps, instead of nicknames, simply list the full names underneath the images? (e.g. "Aerys II Targaryen", etc.)--Rhaenys Targaryen (talk) 15:39, 24 July 2016 (UTC)


What is the source for N'Ghai? Lord Evermore (talk) 12:33, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

That's how the app spells it. Is there a source contradicting that spelling? --Rhaenys Targaryen (talk) 12:44, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
Edit: I see that TWOIAF uses N'ghai instead of N'Ghai. TWOIAF beats AWOIAF, of course :) I'll change it back! --Rhaenys Targaryen (talk) 12:47, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

Knights of the Vale article

I have created an article for the Knights of the Vale. Please take a look.--Gonzalo (talk) 07:26, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

Warrior's Sons article

I will revert my changes for the Warrior's Sons roster. I also wrote up an in-depth look at Maegor's trial of seven and was about to post it. I'll hold off, but I finished it already. When does the grace period end?

For the forum, the spoiler-free period for new material has been set for a month. I've asked for confirmation regarding the spoiler period for the wiki itself, but based both on Ran's earlier statement regarding the wiki ("at least two weeks or as much as a month") and his later statement regarding the grace period on the forum itself, I think we should assume a month, similar to the forum. So November 10. --Rhaenys Targaryen (talk) 09:30, 13 October 2017 (UTC)
Update. Indeed a grace period of a month for the wiki. --Rhaenys Targaryen (talk) 12:48, 13 October 2017 (UTC)

Sons of the Dragon

I saw a new article on Grand Maester Myres so I thought the waiting period was over.--Gonzalo (talk) 21:04, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

Chapters appearing

Hi Rhaenys, could you link me to the forum discussion you mentioned on the Jon Snow article? Thanks. Jaehaerys-III (talk) 12:16, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

Hi! Of course. Starting here, continues for a few more comments :) --Rhaenys Targaryen (talk) 13:46, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

Fire & Blood

Np, I'll do that from now on :)

Request on vance sigil talk

Sure but i am not very good at creating links but i will try i will link it here to so if i fail maybe you could do it. you have to scroll a little way down for ran's comments

I put it on the pages but i am not sure it is displaying correctly so maybe you could take a look. Never mind just saw your message i put it up the way you suggested.

No problem. I’m from Europe which is why their is u’s in some of the words. I’ll try to remember US English.

Template:Piper tree

Hi Rhaenys,

You said the Piper knights were knights sworn to House Piper, but Karyl Vance tells us they were Lord Clement's relatives:

"Karyl Vance turned to Jaime. "Lord Piper spoke from grief. Marq is his firstborn son. Those knights who accompanied him to the Twins were nephews and cousins all." (A Feast for Crows - Jaime VI).

Over the subject of the Lordship unconfirmed, you might be right. I based myself upon the following quote:

"Quellon Greyjoy sired nine sons on three wives. His first and second wives were rock wives, joined to him with the old rites by a priest of the Drowned God, but his last bride was a woman of the green lands, a Piper of Pinkmaiden Castle, wed to him in her father's hall by a septon." (The World of Ice and Fire - The Iron Islands: The Old Way and the New)

I thought that "in her father's hall" meant he owned the place, henceforth he would be the Lord of Pinkmaiden Castle. I probably shouldn't have. --Thomaerys Velaryon (talk) 22:04, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

Hi! I only saw the quote regarding Lady Piper from Feast, but you are absolutely correct that "from her father's hall" indicates that her father was the Lord of Pinkmaiden Castle. I'll return him to the tree. My apologies!
As to the cousins and nephews, I was not aware of the quote, so you are right that they are relatives. But I'm not sure whether they should be reflected in the tree (and surely not as "Piper knights", as that implies something else), since we do not even have the slightest idea as to how they are related to the main branch. So instead, I would like to propose that they are only mentioned in the "family members" section of House Piper.--Rhaenys Targaryen (talk) 19:02, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
Thats sounds good to me and no need to apologize. No one knows every little details from these books. --Thomaerys Velaryon (talk) 19:40, 14 February 2019 (UTC)

Jaehaerys I's progress

Hello Rhaenys,

I saw you changed Jaehaerys's progress in the Vale as being his second progress instead of his first. I think it should still count as being part of the first one (a completion of the first one which had been put on pause for a few months if you will) because the next progress (in the Riverlands) is presented as being Jaehaerys's second royal progress:

Plans for a second royal progress had already been made and announced before the queen’s condition became known. Though Jaehaerys decided at once that he would remain by his wife’s side until the babe was born, Alysanne would not have it. He must go, she insisted. And so he did. The coming of the new year saw the king taking to the sky again on Vermithor, this time for the riverlands.

—Fire and Blood - Birth, Death, and Betrayal Under King Jaehaerys I

Thomaerys Velaryon (talk) 14:31, 19 March 2019 (UTC)

Hi! Thank you for your comment! For some reason, in writing down my notes, I mixed the one to the riverlands with the one to the Vale. You are right that the one to the riverlands is counted as the second progress. So I've changed that back, thank you for the correction! I did keep the change in the last of Jaehaerys's progresses that were described, as we neither know whether they were the next progresses following the one in 58 AC to the north (and the fact that the one to the westerlands is described as the first progress to the westerlands in 20 years while the progress described before that was thirty years ago, implies that there were progresses in between that have not been described by Gyldayn), nor do we know whether it was the last (although that is very likely).--Rhaenys Targaryen (talk) 21:07, 19 March 2019 (UTC)

Timeline shift

Hi, Maegor and Rhaena's betroth has changed to 23 AC. See [1] --Zionius (talk) 09:42, 18 July 2019 (UTC)