User talk:Leco1937

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Hello, Leco1937, and Welcome to Song of Ice and Fire Wiki!

Welcome, to Song of Ice and Fire Wiki! I hope you enjoy the wiki and want to stay.
If you have any questions, feel free to ask me at my talk page — I'm happy to help. Or you can always ask your question at Community portal and the forum.

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Happy editing!
Regards, Scafloc

New images

Hi Leco1937,

I saw you uploaded new coat-of-arms for some nobles houses. They look great. Could you add some information about the copyrights?

Cheers, Scafloc 15:28, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

I think that they come from Green Ronin's RPG and I doubt they may be under a GFDL or a CC licences. Note that the wolf of the Stark's coat of arms seems to come from an herladic figure presents on Wikimedia Commons (release under a CC-by licence), but the image itself can not be considerated as relevent of the same licence as it may be an image under proper copyrights. Resolution of this kind of images is to low to allowed using them in paper edition, which may allowed "fair use" if AWOIAF recognize this typically US's right notion. Nevertheless, proper source and copyrights have to be indicated, and "fair use" as well. I've worked on image licensing on La Garde de Nuit if you want more informations on Mediawiki texts / images licensing. Sorry for my poor english level and best regards, Riusma 16:52, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
Perhaps it's better to have a general discussion on image licensing on the forum than here... Anyway, I think that's it's clearly illegal to upload image on Mediawiki's plateforms if they are not on GFDL or CC licence (these licences are free licences which allowe you to use an image according the same terms, generaly if you just clearly indicate the source) or if you do not have explicit authorization of copyrights owner. Images coming from book or RPG can't be considerated as releavant of these licence because of copyrights that protect them (i.e. if you use them, Green Ronin or the author won't have any money for that, and uploading them on AWOIAF may let think that they are under a free licence, which is contradictory). So, if you do not have any authorization of copyrights owners, you can't upload any image. Note that on Mediawiki, image's copyrights may be different from one to another (each image may have a different copyright), and these copyrights do not have to be under free licence, but anyway you have to ask permission to copyrights owners and set a description as: "This image comes from XXXX and was performed by XXXX who owns the integrality of moral and commercial rights. It appears on AWOIAF with his courtesy, but can not be in any way considered as relevant of Creative Commons or GFDL licences."... But the best think to do is to ask Ran himself because these questions are releavent of editorial guideline of AWOIAF. In fact, "fair use" (i.e. you use an image for which you do not have copyrights but with implicite or explicite authorization because of low resolution and only illustration purpose) is something that may be tolerated... or not. Best Regards, Riusma 18:31, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

An authorization of Green Ronin would be enought if you have a good understanding of images licensing, free and not-free licences etc. (if it's not the case, I think that communication with editors will be difficult and may lead to problems). But first you have to ask Ran (Westeros Webmaster) to know if AWOIAF editorial guideline allowes the use of images which are not under free licences (even with explicit authorization of copyrights owners). It's a very important point! Riusma 18:43, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Yes, question about image licensing may seem difficult (and sorry, english is not my native langage which put the difficulty higher). You may considere that there is three kind of licences : 1/ Public domain => no problem, you can use as you want for any purpose (except those requiered by the laws). 2/ Free licences (as GFDL or Creative Commons) => you can use but generaly you have to set clearly who were the previous authors, and you have to put the work under the same licence (i.e. you can take texts from AWOIAF form your website or for a publication, but the text has to bee under the same licence than the original), as an option you may allowe or not commercial uses. 3/ Not-free licences (which is the case of the majority of works you may find in books etc., even on the web) => if you want to use, you have to ask for permission and generaly you will have to pay for using the work in commercial way (but in non-commercial way too). In Mediawiki environment, texts are forced to be edited under free licence (in the majority of cases it's under CC by-sa licence, Creative Commons is dedicated to artistic works). Position for image depends on editorial guideline of the site, but using an image under copyrights is clearly illegal (and it's worse if you let think that you have copyrights and that the image is under free licence) without explicit permission. Nevertheless, the "illegal" aspect will depends on the use that may be done with the image, and with very low resolution (i.e. < of 150 - 300 dpi) and small size, it's difficult to use en image except on the web (that's one of the base of "fair use" notion, if image is used for illustration purpose for example). Nevertheless, authorization of copyrights owner is necessary... But, editorial guideline of is the first thing you have to ask, because if AWOIAF do not authorizes "fair use" notion, asking permission will be useseless ;) Riusma 19:20, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

What Riusma says is correct. If Green Ronin allow us to use the images we have to add this information to the images. Probably the best way to do this is making a template with their complete statement and a short explanation what this means. Then we use the template in the images.
For exemple whe copied some information from wikia and from wikipedia. Like Riuma says this is allowed if you say from where you copied it and allow any others to use it (under GFDL). I have set this in two templates, one for Wikipedia and one for Wikia. In the copied articles we can then add those template. See for instance A Game of Thrones-Chapter 12 or Eddard Stark (in the lower section of the articles).
For the map it's the same as for the other images. Cheers, Scafloc 10:16, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Image from La Garde de Nuit

Hi Leco1937, I saw your question about using the images from La Garde de Nuit. La Guarde de Nuit seems to use the folowing licenses (the license used can be found at the page of the image):

  • The Creative Commons license[1]. I think it is no problem that we use them. Just set in the information from which page the image was and release the image under the same licence (copy-paste the text of the license). Most Coat-of-Arms are release under the Creative Commons license.
  • The Amoka images. Amoka gave La Guarde de Nuit permission to use the images while still retaining the rights. There was a discussion if AWOIAF can use those images. The general consensus was that we could not. See this link.

Regards,Scafloc 12:43, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Scafloc is right, look at the image wiki page to see which license is used for an image... You can freely used Creative Commons by-sa (CC by-sa) images if you release the image under the same license with a clear notification of the original author(s) with a link to the original image (as a source). You have to clearly indicate the licence by linking with the text as we do for all of the images of La Garde de Nuit (except a few ones that I may have forgoten) (i.e. an external link with the page of the text of the license is enough, you do not have to recopy the integrality of the license). Best regards Riusma 17:26, 9 February 2010 (UTC)