User talk:Mindset

Welcome!

Hello, Mindset, and Welcome to Song of Ice and Fire Wiki!

Welcome to Song of Ice and Fire Wiki! I hope you enjoy the wiki and want to stay.
If you have any questions, feel free to ask me at my talk page — I'm happy to help. Or you can always ask your question at Community portal and the forum.

---

Below some tips some may find usefull

• On the Community page you can find information on how you can contribute.
• The Main Page contains information about this Wiki. It is a good entry point to explore this wiki.
• We encourage you to be bold in your edits, Remember – you can't break the Wiki.

• If you want to try some editing, you can use the Sandbox.
• You can sign your comments with ~~~~. The result is your name and the time.

---

Happy editing!
Regards, Scafloc

House Heddle

Thanks for the help with updating House Heddle. I had a hell of a time gathering all the information for the expansion, but I knew I was forgetting/missing quite a lot. Looks like you covered the rest. - SquisherKing (talk) 16:06, 10 October 2015 (CDT)

Very welcome, happy to help. --Mindset (talk) 17:48, 12 October 2015 (CDT)

Family trees

Hello

You stated in a recent edit that using the pagename variable keeps the template in its category alphabetized under "Targaryen tree Viserys" rather than under "Template". However, since the pagename variable has been added to all the family trees, while they are still listed alphabetically, they are now all listed as "Template:nameoffamilytree". Unless I'm reading your 'reason for edit' wrong, that sounds like the opposite of what you were trying to achieve?--Rhaenys Targaryen (talk) 13:32, 23 November 2015 (CST)

Hi Mindset, I saw on your sandbox you once entertained the idea of implanting diagonals on family trees. That would be a good solution for characters with more than two marriages and it may even be used to show twins too. But is that even possible to do ? --Thomaerys Velaryon (talk) 13:06, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

Hey Thomaerys! I wasn't aware of the CSS methods at the time I originally thought of editing the family tree template some years ago, but it's definitely possible to do diagonals. You can see here that wiki table cells can be rotated, which can be used to make diagonal connectors. (The example there is not what a family tree would look like, it was just to see if the rotation CSS could be used in mediawiki code.) @Ran has fixed my permissions back up, so when I get a chance, I'll try to figure out a way to add diagonal connectors that look good, in a way that doesn't cause issues with existing family trees. Let me know if you have any ideas! --Mindset (talk) 12:57, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

Navbox

Hi Mindset. I'm still new to this wiki so sorry if I don't know how things are done yet. Could you tell me why we need two navboxes for each house instead of condensing them to a single navbox with subgroups? On Wikipedia, that option would be preferred. You said it's standard to have two navboxes, but it's only been about three months since that's the case. I'd appreciate some feedback :) Cheers Abjiklam (talk) 12:52, 21 June 2016 (UTC)

I've updated the navbox template to fix some issues. Could you have a look at {{HousesCrownlands}} and tell me if it's okay? The collapsing functions correctly, and all the titles are well centered. Furthermore, the amount of spoilers can be controlled by every page that transcludes the template by setting the state parameter to collapsed or uncollapsed. By default, spoilers are hidden. Abjiklam (talk) 13:31, 8 July 2016 (UTC)

Azzak zo Ghazeen?

What's the source? The 'A World of Ice and Fire' App?--Gonzalo (talk) 17:25, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

{{Date}}

Hi Mindset, could you tell me what was the error you saw before your revert on {{Date}}? I didn't notice anything so I'm curious what it might be. Abjiklam (talk) 12:44, 8 October 2018 (UTC)

A "Lua Error somenumber" (sorry I forget which number) in bright red, everywhere the template was used, displayed instead of the date. It was reported to me by another user without a login, and I checked it on mobile and desktop and various skins -- all displayed the error. --Mindset (talk) 23:08, 8 October 2018 (UTC)

Could you have a look at User:Abjiklam/sandbox and tell me if there is any problem? I'd like to bring back the Module because it knows how to deal with BC years for dates and date ranges. Abjiklam (talk) 14:31, 19 October 2018 (UTC)

That seems to be working. But could you copy the Alysanne Targaryen page, using that template? That's the article I definitely recall having Lua errors, though other articles did too. That one in particular has many dates, as well as templates within templates, so throwing an error would be more likely there than anywhere else. --Mindset (talk) 17:06, 19 October 2018 (UTC)

Aerion by Scherma

Where did you hear that it's not actually a depiction of Aerion? --Potsk (talk) 19:57, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

Did the research myself, will be editing the page with the info momentarily. But you can see the info here for the moment: https://twitter.com/MaloraHightower/status/1471559138085941250 --Mindset (talk) 19:59, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

Good work, thanks. Seems to not be so uncommon to take Chinese people's artworks and put purple eyes on them. Same thing happened with the Aenar one that was also displayed on TargaryenThursday. --Potsk (talk) 10:01, 17 December 2021 (UTC)

Treason

Hello, I remember this treason page that was deleted. It was a simple copy and paste from the Game of Thrones Wiki made by a guy that was later banned from here because of his reluctance to format the article according to the style of this Wiki and to add some of his text aside from the copy/paste. Anyway history aside, treason is a vast subject, what do you want this article to be about ? There is already an article for the term turncloak but the subjects are linked. The story of the Two Betrayers would fit nicely too. —Thomaerys Velaryon (talk) 21:34, 24 January 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, I tried to edit it to fit more into this wiki's style, and to remove the GOT-specific situations/names etc. But of course it needs more work still. Treason is different from a turncloak because the latter is switching from one side to another, whereas the former is a legal term -- though you can be both a traitor and a turncloak, depending. I was thinking we ought to check the books for whenever someone is called a traitor, or treason is mentioned. In history, the Greens and the Blacks mutually accusing each other of treason would be a good example. Also Rhaenyra's accusation of Addam Velaryon and the other dragonseeds (after the Two Betrayers), and Corlys's arrest afterwards. The near arrest of Daemon Blackfyre for fomenting rebellion... lots of events to add. (Unfortunately I don't have much time to spare on the wiki today, but I'll definitely be editing it more when I can!) --Mindset (talk) 22:42, 24 January 2023 (UTC)

Serial killers

Is a serial killers category really necessary in a world where people go to war frequently and have trials by combat ? There are hundreds of characters that would fit the category then. Maybe we need to precise that those characters are murderers instead of simply killers to restrict the category. Thoughts ? --Thomaerys Velaryon (talk) 07:32, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

A serial killer is a murderer by definition. Real life soldiers killing in combat on a regular basis aren't serial killers (despite the opinions of some). Potsk (talk) 08:55, 6 October 2023 (UTC):

Yes, Thomaerys, what Potsk said - that's why I linked to the wikipedia article, to distinguish characters who killed multiple people out of some psychological need, from ordinary solder-type killers who kill on orders, or one-kill crimes of passion murderers (like Chett). We know Utt killed many boys over the span of multiple years because of his guilt over his pedophilia (classic real-world serial killer behavior like John Wayne Gacy), Androw killed out of misogyny/homophobia/a twisted need to be recognized (see Ted Bundy or the École Polytechnique massacre, though unlike that mass shooting, Androw's behavior took place in secrecy over the span of a long period using slow poison, which is what specifically tips him to a serial killer rather than a crime of passion). Danelle Lothston is an edge case, but she seems to be inspired by Elizabeth Bathory, who is an alleged serial killer with similar "bathe in blood" crimes, that's why I included her too. --Mindset (talk) 09:21, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

(I also debated adding Euron Greyjoy, as he killed two brothers apparently because of a pathological desire to watch them die-- but the limited numbers, and the fact that that's a TWOW reveal, not to mention the confusion from his political kills, had me leave him out of the category for now. Oh! I should definitely add Ramsay though.) --Mindset (talk) 09:28, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

Categories

Hi! I saw that you deleted the category Waterfalls, because it wasn't working properly. I obviously don't know if that was the reason, but if it was because 'Alyssa's Tears' still hadn't shown up, that might have a different reason. I've recently noticed that adding and removing things from categories is either not working at all anymore or takes a very long time. For example, I added 'Jeyne Fossoway' to the House Hightower category four days ago and she still hasn't shown up in it. This might possibly be because of the caching that was recently discussed on the Forum. Anyway, just thought I'd mention it. -Alyx Rivers (talk) 23:52, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

Ah, thank you, I was wondering if that might be the issue, but I thought deleting might fix it. I was going to ask Elio about the caching (the CSS changes I added a week ago also still haven't shown up) but I haven't had the chance... --Mindset (talk) 00:29, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

The She-Wolves of Winterfell

Hi, I am looking at the source used for this claim: "There may be a House Stark succession crisis, a struggle for power among the ladies on behalf of their children." I am aware that the source used earlier in The She-Wolves of Winterfell article was the wrong one (I apologize for my sloppy edit earlier), however I think that this source still doesn't suggest this.

As far as I see information in the linked sources, it does not mention the Stark widows making claim on behalf of their children, only that there are lots of kids around at that time and that five widows of previous Lord Starks are involved.

Furthermore, two of the recent Stark widows are childless with three others being respectively mother, grandmother and great-grandmother of Beron's sons which would beg the question who are the children that these ladies are fighting for.--Paxter Redwyne (talk) 15:14, 15 August 2025 (UTC)

Hey! So no worries re the editing of The She-Wolves of Winterfell, I was checking the page history and the second source got accidentally removed some years ago. Easy fix. As for the source content, the power struggle is mentioned, as are the many children -- and that's how noble women in Westeros fight for power, through their children. The complex family tree at the time (as revealed in TWOIAF), due to the many descendants of Cregan Stark, such as his eldest son's daughters who may have been "robbed" of their inheritance ("robbed" in that they had a right but Cregan may not have wanted a woman to follow him as there has never been any ruling Lady of Winterfell), and his many sons from his third wife, some who became lords of Winterfell (with or without children), would mean that their various descendants all have an arguable claim for the lordship. (See GRRM's comments about "precedence or proximity" here.) For example, Serena (one of said daughters) could argue that even though her husband Edric (evidently) died before his older brother Lord Jonnel did and before his younger brothers Barthogan or Brandon became the lord, Edric's sons Cregard and Torrhen had a better right than Brandon or Brandon's son Beron did. The messiness of the whole situation is implicit in GRRM saying (paraphrased) "things were not so good". Also, the She-Wolves are not just "widows", per GRRM they are "formidable Stark wives, widows, mothers, and grandmothers". See this forum post, which also talks about the "widows" misapprehension. Hope that helps! --Mindset (talk) 00:45, 16 August 2025 (UTC)

Oh, and for that matter, the fact that Brandon was Cregan's fourth son by Lynara (fifth altogether), who got the lordship despite having many older brothers with children (and that Beron was a second son, and that Beron's own second son Willam is the one who the Stark lineage will go through) is a perfect historical irony for Egg's own future situation, becoming king despite being the fourth son of a fourth son, which is undoubtedly why this is a Dunk & Egg story to begin with. Except there was evidently no Great Council in this case, just Dunk and Egg visiting Winterfell and getting into trouble (and solving it) as they usually do. --Mindset (talk) 00:56, 16 August 2025 (UTC)

Thank you for your reply. I am perfectly aware of all of this, however the paraphrased sources indeed do not mention specifically that the women struggling for power are doing it for their children specifically, only that there were lots of kids at that time making the Stark line safe. In regars to "formidable Stark wives, widows, mothers, and grandmothers", it does not specify that all of them had issue and the phrase 'children' seems to imply that most if not all of these were underage, while Serena's progeny are likely all grown by the time of the struggle (unless there are some chronological errors involved), closer in age to Beron than his kids with Serena's good-sons described as "loyal lords" according to Elio. I think this article should simply be reworded a bit to clarify which portions come from GRRM or semi-canon sources vs fan speculation; Btw I too think that this conflict is most likely revolving around the struggle between Beron's and Serena's branches (possibly widow Lady Starks quarrelling over regency since they are described as 'running the Winterfell' while another branch tries to seize power from outside), however we don't actually have much from GRRM to cite for here, so it remains mostly a speculation for now.--Paxter Redwyne (talk) 10:13, 16 August 2025 (UTC)